Parses captions for PM Trudeau's daily speeches and presents them in a more human readable format
Rosemary:
Ok. There is the Prime Minister of Canada on this Wednesday, giving us a briefing of his government’s response to COVID-19 and also responding to the military report, the Canadian forces report on the state of affairs in long-term care centres in Quebec. I’ll bring in My colleagues, the cbc’s david Cochrane and host of “power & politics”, Vassy kapelos. I’m going to point out one ironic thing that the Prime Minister said that has nothing do with long-term care centers. He was asked whether he would be open to attending the g-20 meeting that donald trump suggested that could happen in person. He said in english in-person meets are more effective than virtual meetings. Which is interesting for a government pushing very hard to suggest that hybrid models are enough for a parliament that has sat very, very little over the course of the past year even before the pandemic began. Anyway, that was just My ironic observations. We know that he spoke to premier legault this morning about this report and, again, it is not of the same sort of shocking observations as we saw in the Ontario report. Lots of things to be fixed, certainly, in long-term care centres in Quebec, but it is not of the same magnitude of startleling and emotionally disturbing revelation.
Rosemary:
Yeah. There is a short term urgent situation that has to be corrected and assuming that the military is doing that work in shoring up resources and manpower or people power as it were. The broader conversation that you are talk about that probably does require federal leadership, the Prime Minister said he is not going short circuit that conversation right now. I think, too, about it being different, a different picture across the country is certainly an important one as well. So you should imagine a first Minister’s meeting, for instance, that is just focused on this at some point. I know they’ll have a call tomorrow about where they sit down and try to hash out whats more do you need Na terms of resource or funding or what conditions could we put on it? you could see that down the road. It’s just when is sort of the question.
Reporter:
I think comparing the two reports from the summaries we’ve seen and what the Prime Minister has had to say, you are looking at deficiencies in Quebec versus a catastrophe in Ontario, at least in terms of what the military saw. Obviously there were serious problems in Quebec before the Canadian armed forces went in there and some of those were quite horrifying. But the presence of military seems to have stabilize that situation. and when you walk through what happened in these homes where you do have low-wage and limited trained employees, that is the structure that has been set up across the country. a pandemic hit with an unknown virus with uncertain protocols that required personal protective equipment that we had in short supply at the time. a bunch of staff got sick and then a bunch of staff quit. That is a total recipe for a crisis. It exposed the structural weakness. This has not happened across the country simply because the pandemic is different across the country. Almost no cases in places like atlantic Canada. B.c. Had outbreaks in the long-term care home, but seemed to have clear and immediate public health responses to it and early decisive action that limited it. It didn’t turn into the crisis that it became here in central Canada. This is undoubtedly going to be a conversation about jurisdiction and financing. There is a reluctance at the federal level to blanket increase transfers and give it tos the province because there is no guarantee that the money is used to fix deficiencies in priority areas for the federal government. The provinces will say, look, we’ve been stealing money away from other prioritis to prop up. The health system in the absence of increasing and sufficient federal money. It will be a significant conversation. While the Prime Minister speaks about rming jurisdiction, that is public line that any Prime Minister has to say, in particular a Prime Minister that recommends a riding in Quebec. The fallout of this, again I go back to what I said yesterday. I wonder what the public’s tolerance is. When this inevitable first ministers meeting happens and the talk of a jurisdictional fix, a lot of structural stuff may need to be set aside. You can point to the fact that between 75 and 80% of all deaths in this country happened in long term care and it has expose add real frail spot on the periphery of the health care system. On the core of it, the hospitals have done well. It is the edges of health system where the real problem has been.
Rosemary:
I think probably the public doesn’t have a lot of time for a jurisdictional conversation about this. They’d rather someone fix it. I wonder if the Prime Minister can’t get into that publicly right now. You know, whether – if the federal government is contemplating some move that would allow them more ability to regulate or take control of long-term care centres.
Reporter:
I think some of the – Quebec and Ontario may talk about jurisdictions. But it is the Canadian armed forces are in their jurisdiction propping up their long-term care homes right now and that is a fact that simply cannot be brushed aside once this is all over.
Rosemary:
and a difficult fact for premiers. Vassy, a thought on that.
Vassy:
There are things that the Prime Minister could say, for example. We are open to a federal inquiry at the end of all this. I understand the short-term needs when it comes to transfers. I guess I would underscore, though, that premiers have been asking for an increase to the transfer payments for as long as I’ve been working in covering politics. They complained can about it with the previous government and then this kefm the same formula and complained about it, too. I wonder if there will be a more immediate transfer given that the premier in Ontario has asked for one. I don’t know how else. There’s lots of stuff that has to be done with inspections but when the inspections find things in other homes outside of those five homes, how do you address the problems there? I’m not saying they’re going to be as acute as what the canadian arm aed forces observe. But I’ve been hearing from lots of people who have family members who think they’re pretty bad here as well. In order to address them, I take your point that it’s difficult right now to wait in on the jurisdictional site. But the people I hear from just don’t care. They just want it fixed and sort of lack of specificity from all levels of government is doing nothing to assuage their concerns.
Rosemary:
Ok. I’ll put this into perspective a little bit for everybody in terms of long-term beds in Canada. Right now there is more than 250, 000 long-term care beds in this country. But a report by the conference board of Canada suggested we need 43, 000 new beds over the next five years. By 2035, we need almost 200, 000 more. That, of course, is because of an aging population, people living much longer and a more serious illness that we’re able to manage and care for which can requires people to go into these facilities. This isn’t a new problem and it is not going to be a problem that gets better, I guess, is My point. To keep in mind. Mark ziegler knows all too well. He was part of a legal team of an inquiry that invest ga*ited offences committed by elizabeth wettlaufer while she was working as a registered nurse in Ontario’s health care system. In 2017, she pleaded guilty to numerous criminal offences, including eight counts of first-degree murder. The inquiry’s final report was nearly 1500 pages long and contained 91 recommendations. Some of them about long-term care centres. and Mr. Ziegler says many of ME observations that we saw in these military reports were echoed in that report. Thank you for making the time.
Good afternoon.
Rosemary:
As I said there, when you read –
Good morning.
Rosemary:
Yeah. Good morning. [laughter]when you read the military report from yesterday, and I’ve heard this from other people who have followed long-term care in this country, it wasn’t actually that surprising to you, was it?
No. Because the problems about standards of care and staffing have been around for a long time. They got terribly exacerbated by COVID-19 and the infections in the homes. But things like improper medication doses, patients falling, shortages of staff and not having staff available, particularly registered nurse staff, evening and nighttime shifts. This has been – this is the core of justice scalice’s review and report and the conclusions she reached. The other thing to note is the increased acuity. The first thing she wants out is the increased acuity of the residents in these homes and by acuity, that is the number of conditions they have. That is a more complex situation that is arriving in these homes. There aren’t anymore beds because they haven’t been increased much. Unfortunately 20% of populations pas away every year and of those that are there, 90% have some form of cognitive impairment and 95% or more need help with activities such as eating or going to the bathroom.
Rosemary:
This is a question probably not fair and probably very complicated. What would be the short answer to how we got here? is it a lack of funding? is it that we can cut hospital beds? is it that we are not appreciating people who are not in front of us and how we’re treating older Canadians. What would be the short answer to that?
There is no short answer because it’s a combination of all those things. Starting with the lack of beds and the acuity of the patients going on to lack of staffing and funding and recruitment and people wanting to work in the area. and also emphasis on more home care by some of the governments and, of course, less hostile care. If they want more people being felt with at home with less acuity, there is more of an incentive to have more long-term beds. But I don’t know that people could be cured for at home that well.
Rosemary:
Certainly not the transformation mall parts of them. The Ontario government was supposed to put forward some notion around staffing this July, if I’m not mistaken, to sort of look at better staffing and how you shift staff. I’m not sure if they’re still going to do that. But that was one of the issues outlined in the military’s observation. Sometimes support workers would have 30 or 40 people they were supposed to be looking after. There were people on staff at night. How significant would that change be in terms of making sure that people are better cared for?
Extremely significant if you have trained and qualified staff to deal with the situation. But the military saw staff leaving or being quarantined where you already had a very low staff-to-resident ratio and that pushed it way, way over the edge and over the brink. So, staffing was something that the provinces asked to look at. But justice scalice asked to deal with it within the year but could have dealt with it sooner. I don’t know what progress they made before the pandemic hit. I don’t know where they are right now. It’s not just – you can’t wave the magic wand, you have to fund for it and train people and have to give people incentives to want to work in these homes and there are also problems with a lot of part-time staff that fwrenl home to home and that didn’t help in terms of the spread of COVID-19, either.
Rosemary:
You are listening in to the Prime Minister. Obviously lots of questions to him about what the federal government, what will the federal government play here, given that it is a shared jurisdiction. This part is not under them. What would you think Ottawa might be able to do here in order to provide some leadership or funding or whatever.
Well, funding is what leads to better staffing so that is an area that is to be considered. How that gets targeted to the right places, given the fights over who has jurisdiction over these zones and obviously it is provincial jurisdiction. We’ll see how that plays out. Obviously our health care system overall, if you look at it, a large component of federal funding but the federal controls vary, depending on the issue.
Rosemary:
Given how much time you spent with wettlaufer, which was a different situation, obviously, but also showed more of the systemic problems, would you see any benefit in another inquiry or royal commission, anything like that to dig into this or do you think the information we have is out there?
That is ultimately up to the government. What we do know is that these inquiries take time and money and involve lengthy hearings and the justice scalice inquiry took two years into the wettlaufer situation. and that er lot of recommendations there that can be dealt with immediately and should be. If that’s the case, then deal with them rather than conduct more studies. There are other issues that were beyond the mandate of justice scalice’s inquiry and the government will have to determine what’s the best way to deal with that inquiry.
Rosemary:
Did you ever think that we’d get to a point in this country where Canadian forces members would be in long-term care centres doing the work that they’re doing right now?
Oh, heaven’s no. No one predicted a pandemic and certainly no one predicted as well that the provinces and premiers of three provinces would throw up their arms and see our own resources aren’t enough to help support them and we need the military. You have to remember in Ontario this is five homes out of 600, 700 homes that are in the province. But still, the thought that the military would come to this and would take a pandemic to have this happen, certainly crossed nobody’s mind last July when this report was with issued.
Rosemary:
Ok. Thank you very much. Ok. One of other stories that we’ve been talk about this week, of course, is the federal government ramping up testing and tracing in this country, working hard with the provinces to get it to the next level and one of the places that has had an enormous amount of success on that front in containing COVID-19 is Iceland and a key to that is contact tracing, which very differently than here is led by Iceland police. The head of that response team is detective gesture pal ma
Daren:son who joins me from rej ykjavik, iceland. Hi, good toe see it. I hope I didn’t screw up your whole name. Why don’t you say it?
The name is fair enough. But I was leading one of teams in the contact tracing norkts whole unit.
Rosemary:
I gave you a promotion, detective.
Yeah. Thank you. [laughter]
Rosemary:
One of things that is interesting about what Iceland has done to bring about so much success is that the police, actually, you and your colleagues took over this work of contact tracing because it is essentially detective work. Tell me what you did that worked.
This pandemic is certainly a very weak issue and it has many sides and many approaches that can and cannot work. So, for one, what we did is a collaborative effort with the citizens that was number one. So, all the efforts of the public safety, the chief epidemiologists and all those guys kaord noting the effort was directed at consuming with the citizens and the way we set up our unit was a collaborative effort between health care workers, nurses and the police and when you combine the forces of those two you have a force to be reckoned with. That is one of the key things that made us successful but there are many others as well.
Marcy:
Our government is looking at potentially one app for the country. How effective or how useful were apps in terms of helping you trace and contact people?
So, the app is fantastically useful for sure. In our case, it was slightly late to the game because when we got the app we implemented a lot of restrictions t two-metre rule, the no more than 20 people together and so forth. So we already had a lot of message in place. When we got the app we were able to use it to trace a few places. So we collaborated with local companies that built the app for us a and to make sure we had the integrity of the app and the information. We have a double consent to the app. For one, it’s your choice to download it. Two, if you become a contact, or if you become infected with COVID-19, and we trace you, we send you a request digital through your phone and you can decide if you want to share the data with us or not. So it is always your choice if you want to share the app. The app is a location app so we use that to help you trace your steps. So it is a combined effort between human interaction and the use of the electronics and the technology.
Rosemary:
So how are you doing, then in what is the situation in Iceland? if I’m not mistaken, you are not allowed to Holt events with 200 people. You are obviously doing better than we are.
That’s true. We are relieving restrictions. We have no one in the hospital, we tested 60, 000 people, which is about 60% of the population and we seem to be able to gradually open up now without getting backlashes. So hopefully we wait two weeks now because we just extended to 200 people last Monday.
Rosemary:
But you are still doing your work and testing and tracing and doing all of that.
We are still testing and tracing. But we aren’t getting very many positives. We went six days last week without anyone testing positive.
Rosemary:
I have to leave it there. Thank you so much. So interesting to learn lessons from other countries. You are watching CBC news network. We’ll be right back with more coverage here in Ottawa. I’m rosemary Barton. ♪
Rosemary:
Hi, again, I’m rosemary Barton here in Ottawa. Thanks for joining us on CBC news network” and streaming around the world on our app and of course on our website. The Prime Minister says he will speak with premiers tomorrow about how to build a better long-term care home system. It comes, of course, on the heels of the release of a reportby the military about the situation in 25 seniors residences in Quebec, and the report from the military describing horrific living conditions in five long-term care homes they are helping in during COVID-19. As well today the prime ministermade another appeal to businesses to start to take advantage of in a more aggressive way the wage subsidy program as the canadian emergency relief benefit, or CERB, starts to draw down over the next five weeks or so. The government hoping the uptakein wage subsidies will replace Canadians on CERB and that businesses will start to bring back any employees they may havelaid off or furloughed. This week the government also unveiled a plan to help large businesses cope during the pandemic. It aims to provide some bridge financing. Sorry, that was last week. To Canada’s largest employers. Heather reisman is the founder and ceo of indigo. Indigo, I’m sure you know, has stores in every province and certainly online, and she joins me from toronto. Good to see you.
Nice to see you.
Rosemary:
Thanks for making the time. First let me just ask how indigo is coping amidst all this. I noticed a couple of stores are open now, but give me a sense of how you guys are doing.
Well, on the positive side, there is good energy within our teams to try and do everything we can to work through this, andthat’s always number one. You need to have the energy of your people. We have been doing our best to keep as many people employed, but of course until our stores come fully back onstream, we will be challenged in that regard.
Rosemary:
Of course.
So a positive spirit to get through this, but these are really challenging times, as we’ve said many times in these discussions.
Rosemary:
They are challenging times for small businesses and big businesses like your own. The government obviously has put forward a number of different programs to address all of these different things. I would be interested to know if you are using any of them. Because the Prime Minister talked about it today, the wage subsidy program, for instance. is that something that you have taken advantage of?
Yes, the wage subsidy program allowed us to keep as many people as we could keep. It is the most fantastic program, and it is hugely helpful to retail. You know, no matter the size of the retail business, considered large or medium or small, we are at the front line. Our employees, whether we’re medium or a large business, same employees as in a small, smallerbusiness, right, so that program allows us to bring people back even when our business is not where it needs to be. It’s a fantastic program. I can’t express enough our appreciation for that program, and I know when I speak to otherretailers, our hope is that the program will be extended so that if we bring people back we can keep them back, even though we know sales will be depressed for some period of time.
Rosemary:
Okay.
and I have to say, as a citizen, I agree with the Prime Minister. Keeping people working is so much better than having them unemployed. So fantastic program.
Rosemary:
Okay. Good feedback there. What about the large employer emergency financing facility, the lee ff program, which is essentially bridge financing for big businesses. is that something you’ve been able to tap into or need?
No. I understand the reason for the program and for many industries it could work. It’s a program that covers all industries. It’s not particularly helpful asit’s currently structured for those of us in the retail business. It is not an ideal program for us.
Rosemary:
Tell me why.
The intent of the program, As understand it, is for that program to be a kind of lender of last resort program, and I think intelligent on the part of the Minister of finance to say any industry that can go and find financing elsewhere, great. We’re going to be high-cost financing. In a business like ours, which at the best of times is a low margin business, very high-cost financing is just not the kind of program that works as it’s currently structured. I’m respectful of what the Minister is doing, but it is notdesigned, really, for retailers. Whereas the small retail programthat was brought forward, that is a very well-structured program, and we’re hoping that under that program there may be an opportunity to do something for medium and larger retailers.
Rosemary:
You obviously, as you’re starting to slowly reopen in some places of the country, because that’s the challenge I guess you have too, it depends on where you are and where your stores are, having to change what the stores look like and how people circulate in the stores. How difficult has that been? how expensive has that been as acompany?
I appreciate your asking thatquestion, because that is very much on all our minds. First of all, we can’t have as many people in stores as we are used to having. Second, we have to invest quite meaningfully in creating environments that will make our staff and our customers feel safe, but it is costly. and then the entire supply chain that supports us, of course everyone has to work under social distancing. So what I think we want people to understand is that the cost for retailers, and that’s restaurants and product retailers and service retailers, we want people to understand that it is a high-cost way of operating, very high cost way ofoperating, and huge pressure downwards on our margins, so we are being hit from all angles. I think everyone is trying to dotheir best, but yes, safety is first for employees. So we know there are no questions asked. We must make these investments, but yes, it is very expensive tooperate like this.
Rosemary:
What is the thing that you think that Ottawa has yet to do for large businesses and what would be valuable for you?
Right, I can only speak for our sector, medium and large retail businesses. As I say, an extension and a ramp-up of the wage subsidy program so that we can bring on more people than we really need, keep them engaged in the company, and we would like to see the relief program that was done for small business in some way be adapted so that we can address, you know, the idea of paying full rent when you’re gonna do 50% of the normal business you do, or 60%, and your costs are still there, it’sreally hard. So we’re hoping, and the Prime Minister has said he’s going to do something, so we’re hopeful.
Rosemary:
Let me end on a happier note, just as a fellow book lover, I AM actually reading probably more because of the pandemic than I would have normally. Are you getting people who are taking more comfort in your book picks or in ordering online thanusual?
Yes, I will say thank you for mentioning that too. Yes, I think people have rediscovered the joys of reading, and you know, there’s going to be a whole lifestyle change. I think this is such a significant event, people are taking stock and what is intentional and what is meaningful and what brings joy. I think that is going to be the silver lining of this event, and so yes, people are reading more. They really are.
Rosemary:
Okay.
and that should be celebrated.
Rosemary:
Yes, it should. I agree. Heather reisman, so good of you to make the time. I know how busy you are. I appreciate it so much.
My pleasure. Thank you.
Rosemary:
Nice speaking with you, heather Heisman is the founder and CEO of indigo, and she was in Toronto.
now back to Ottawa where the president of the treasury board is speaking now at their regularupdate. We’ll bring you shortly, though, into the house of commons when things get under way in their new hybrid version, in-person and onscreen. Let’s listen in here live.
– all Canadians share the Prime Minister’s view that things must change. Our seniors deserve better. As a society, we can and we should and we must do better. [voice of interpreter]today the Quebec government released the canadian armed forces report on the situation of the long-term care facilitieswhere the canadian forces were deployed. It’s a damning report, heart wrenching, and I think that all Canadians and certainly all quebecers realize that we need to have a serious conversation about how we treat our seniors and have this conversation as a society as a whole. With a bit of luck, we’ll all reach this golden age, and we should be entitled to – well, since we now are entitled to diein dignity, we should, of course, be able to live in dignity. I’d be delighted now to respond to your questions. [ end of interpretation ]
Thank you, Minister. So today we’re going to start in the room to let people have time to queue up. So, Ian, Julie, mike? who goes first? Julie?
Reporter:
Oh, okay. Mr. Duclos, after hearing the information about the reports both yesterday and today, there’s a lot of suggestions outthere, but the Prime Minister keeps talking about respecting provincial jurisdiction. is putting long-term care under the Canada health act, is that completely off the table?
Well, Julie, as you said, these are very, very difficult reports to read through. I did also read through the Ontario report yesterday and thequebec report this morning. This is very difficult not only to take note of but certainly to accept in Canada, a developed economy, a developed society, where we absolutely need to take better care of our seniors. and that’s why as the Prime Minister repeatedly said this morning, we need to have a very serious and collaborative discussion on how we look after our seniors in the weeks, the months and the years to come. He also said that this conversation opened up all options, as we must, and as we should do, and, therefore, we will have to work together and speak respectfully of each other’s jurisdictions, but also work respectfully with each other to make sure that our seniors get better care.
Reporter:
Okay, so that doesn’t sound like it is off thetable. Second question, as you know, Rivera is the second-largest private chain in the country which is under the crown corporation that reports to you. The federal cabinet also appoints a financial auditor to rivera. I’m wondering because of all theproblems that exist in long-termcare homes, including those ones, are you considering appointing a health auditor who would make sure that quality of care was under way?
Well, your question is extremely relevant given the reports we received yesterday and today, which remind us, again, of the importance to, a, acknowledge the very difficult circumstances in which too many of our seniors are going through in the last few weeks. But that also speaks to the difficult circumstances in which many of them were finding themselves prior to the crisis. Those were perhaps slightly less serious because of the absence of COVID-19, but they might have been less visible because, unfortunately, the lives of these seniors are often hidden from media and public view. and therefore, that calls upon the government, as I said just few moments ago, to look at all options. Regarding Rivera and the public sector pension investment board, psp, as we call it, is an independent organization. It’s an arm’s length organization with two layers of independence. First layer is at the appointment committee, the nomination committee for the members of the board. That committee is separate from the government, and it makes recommendations that are independent of the government’s views. and then the board members actually nominated of course are also independent. There are two different layers of independence to protect the independence and the integrity of psp. But as with all institutions, we expect psp, as well as other organizations, to be mindful of the situation that we are now learning more about and to do what is right for themselves and for Canadians. and regarding the audit, the appointments of auditors, this is also an in which we will want to think carefully about. Again, respecting the integrity and the independence of that institution.
Thank you, Minister. Ian?
Reporter:
Ian wood, CTV news. Minister, the PM this morning just reiterated that lots of money has already been given to provinces and territories to deal with the coronavirus pandemic. I’m just wondering, of that I think billion dollars, how much of it was earmarked for care homes, and considering this was done before the military raised the flag of issues in care homes, is more on the way?
Well, that’s important to remind Canadians that, indeed, from the very start of the crisis the federal government did send half a billion extra transfer to provinces and territories in the anticipation that there would be a need for greater resources invested in the broader health sector, including public health, but also including health care, and that includes the health care provided by long-term care centres. As we also know, the fellow government was – has been providing, and it is absolutely necessary support for personal protective equipment, for provision of treatment. We work collaboratively on the development of vaccines. So there will be more to do. But as I said, from the very start we did invest significantly in the crisis. How exactly those dollars were spent by provinces, of course, depend on the priorities of provinces, and that depends, of course, on the local circumstances of each province and territory.
Reporter:
Right, but just to clarify, the money was for the health sector and dealing with the pandemic, not specifically care homes. So is more on the way, essentially, that’s what I’m asking. My second question, though, is few weeks ago we sat here and we heard about the government’s plan for helping seniors who were struggling financially. Some people have said that they are not receiving those benefitsyet. Do we have a date on a rollout? has this already started? are there any issues with getting this additional money toseniors?
No, there is no additional issue. We want to make sure that these benefits come quickly. We also want to make sure that they are allocated in a prudent and efficient manner. The system is remarkably effective, but since we are dealing with almost 7 million recipients of old age security and the guaranteed income supplement, you know, public servants need to do their rigorous work, and we expect the delivery of those benefits to be done as quickly as possible.
One question, one follow-up, ian. Thank you. Mike?
Reporter:
Hello, Minister. I’m just trying to figure out who was actually responsible for these long-term care homes? we have auditors from the government. We have provincial people and wehave local jurisdictions. There’s everyone there. Who is responsible ultimately, if we were to go we need this fixed? who do we talk to?
Well, I think most Canadians, including yourself, mike, know that it’s under provincial jurisdiction. What most Canadians that I know of also believe is that this is a joint responsibility at the end, that wherever the support comes from is less important than importance of that support, and that’s why Canadians expect, as the Prime Minister repeated this morning, expect the federal government to be supportive of that provincial jurisdiction. It’s true in all contexts, but it has become extremely clear tocanadians in the current context. What is happening to our senior sis unacceptable, and therefore the federal government’s responsibility is to be there to support provinces and territories.
Reporter:
and this situation probably is not a new thing that just happened because of COVID-19, so it’s probably been happening before this situation. Was there any indicators before these reports came out that these problems were happening in the long-term care homes?
Well, perhaps provide a personal view, which may be too personal view on that, given My role as a member of parliament. So during the last election I did have the opportunity of visiting long-term care centres in My riding. What I saw was very, very good, meaning a lot of dedicated staff, people working under difficult circumstances typically with a modest wage, very committed physically and mentally to their work. But what I did notice was that there was a lot of work to be done. Not only the physical work but the psychological, the human presence, which was very demanding for the staff that I had the privilege of meeting during that election campaign. So it’s not difficult for me to imagine how difficult that work must be now and must have been in the last few weeks given the context that I saw in September. So although it was there, there was a feeling that there could be more time and resources allocated to look after our seniors. I think now it’s clearly the case that we need to do more.
Thank you, Minister. So we’re now going to go to the phone. One question, one follow-up. Operator, over to you.
Operator:
Thank you. If you have a question, please press star 1 on your telephone key pad. [voice of interpreter]
Reporter:
Yes, Mr. Duclos, I’d like to come back to your encouraging words to employers to avail themselves of the wage subsidy so that folks leave behind the CERB and now turn to the cws. Does the expect intend to extend the CERB or will it come to an end at the date originally indicated?
Well, you’ve just underscored the important link between the CERB and the cws, the wage subsidy. We know that from the outset with this pandemic a lot of Canadians lost their jobs and, therefore, their source of income, and by extension companies have difficulty keeping them on their payroll. Now we expected that a lot of those workers would claim the CERB, the Canadian emergency response benefit. Now that the economy is slowly starting to recover and we can sense this particularly in Quebec, there are a lot of companies that want to sort of get back to something approximating what’s normal, andwe’re expecting the caws to replace the CERB in as many cases as possible. But what’s important to understand is that under the cws, wages continue to flow to employees, and that will help the employees to contribute to the businesses and by extension the Canadian economy. Now we are obviously around the cabinet table and within government discussing these issues practically, and in due course we’ll have more specifics to offer you.
Follow-up question?
Reporter:
Yes, on another topic that you raised in English, assistance for seniors. UL you clarify when this money will come out of the door? and I know it’s difficult to make verifications, but some of these seniors already receive the old age security, so I don’tknow why there would be additional delays, why it’s not as simple as tacking on $300 to their pension cheques. Why is there this delay?
Everyone wants to know when this will happen, when the money will get out of the gate. We know that public servants and officials have to follow directives to ensure that the Canadian taxpayers’ money goes to the right people. Now the amount of money will be non-taxable, and of course applications have to be processed. There’s a normal admin process that needs to be followed so that things are done quickly butalso properly.
Thank you, Minister. [ end of interpretation ]
Operator:
The next question is from Theresa wright, the Canadian press. Please go ahead. The line is now open.
Reporter:
Good morning. Earlier the Prime Minister said he didn’t want to make aggressive proposals to the provinces when we asked him about the idea of federal standards. Why would national standards forlong-term care be considered an aggressive proposal?
Well, I think federal standards would be aggressive. National standards would be aggressive too if they were developed and then proposed in manner that was dictated by Ottawa. We know how important the work of provinces and territories is in all contexts in health care. We know how difficult it is in the particular COVID-19 context. So in a question of respect for their – literally their jurisdiction, but also their work is absolutely essential, and therefore – that’s what the Prime Minister said again this morning. So we know the federal support and federal guidelines or federal support to guidelines, that’s good when it is developed in collaboration and in full support of the work of province sand territories. Otherwise we will engage into jurisdictional fights and that will be completely counterproductive. We want that to be done for the benefit of seniors, and that’s why it must be done in a very respectful manner.
Follow-up?
Reporter:
Yes, thank you. I hear what you’re saying, and yourself and the Prime Minister and others keep talking about these jurisdictional issues, butwe’re talking about really serious abuses against seniors, our parents, our grandparents. What do you say to Canadians who are watching this unfold and may see this as politicians pointing fingers at one another and saying that’s not My job.
That’s what we want to avoid. We don’t want politicians to point fingers at each other. We saw yesterday how premier ford and the Prime Minister demonstrated these very good sign of collaboration, respect for each other, but also – but most importantly, align, as you said, to the needs of seniors, to the fact that we need to look after them better. So I thought and I believe that is shared by a number of other people. I thought that yesterday’s demonstration of respect and collaboration at the same time by premier ford and the Prime Minister Trudeau was something of significantly supportive of hope for the future and hope of doing better for our seniors.
Thank you. Minister. Operator, next question, please.
Operator:
Thank you. Merci. [no interpretation][voice of interpreter]
Reporter:
Yes, Mr. Duclos, listen, My question is not for the president of the treasury board but for the chief economist. My question is about the CERB. You answered My colleague’s question earlier. Here’s My question. is this program one that can come to an end overnight? we know that there is a deadline. It may be extended. What about a gradual winding down of the CERB?
Well, thank you very much for acknowledging the fact that there is an economic side to the work that I do and has been the case for the past couple of months and years. Now vis-À-vis the CERB, it carries the word or the name “emergency benefit” because the employment insurance system justwasn’t up to the task to help millions of Canadians. It would have taken years to payout ei benefits Ti Canadians, even those who are entitled and qualified. So we needed a fast tracked, seamless system, and that was called the Canada emergency response benefit. Now right off the bat it was announced that the CERB would lead to something else, a different iteration of it or something else entirely. We don’t know what that will look like yet, but we know that it will be an income support measure for households and families, but also an incentive for workers to go back to work. We are all mindful of the fact that – so that the economic recovery plays out properly, there will be a need for a transition from CERB to something else.
Follow-up question?
Reporter:
Just to clarify, should we understand from your answer that we might have a hybrid CERB to incentivize a return to work? second question, what about the economic recovery? what are your top priorities? and when can Canadians expect to see the broad brush strokes of the economic recovery plan for Canada? what’s the kind of time frame? will it be this fall?
Let me give you a two-prongedanswer to that question. First, in what I categorize the second phase of the economic crisis of COVID-19, the first stage to do with the landing of the aircraft in the midst of a storm to make sure that our families, our seniors, that everyone was safe and sound. The second phase is to provide the protective and relief measures that are necessary, such as emergency benefits for both companies, and for large employers, the wage subsidy thatis already paying an integral role to help out canadian companies to pick themselves up and recover. Now there’s going to be a third phase, of course. We don’t know exactly when and how the third phase will begin. It will, of course, in a large part – to a large part depend on the health conditions and thelandscape and backdrop there. But public health experts’ advice needs to be followed, andthere need to be workplace accommodations such that the hazards and risks of a likelihood of a second wave of infection, which would be very dangerous for Canadians and canadian businesses. So the third phase will be a collaborative process with the provinces and territories as well. [ end of interpretation ]still what we call the second phase of the COVID-19 economic crisis. The first phase is when we landed the plane, the social and economic plane of our country, making sure that workers and families would land safely in the middle of a big storm –
Rosemary:
Okay, we’re going to pull away from the federal briefing with the president of the treasury board, the only person at the briefing today, to bring you inside the house of commons. This is special committee, covidcommittee happening again today. But it is also a little bit of precedent setting, history making, if you will, because it is a hybrid sitting of this special committee in the house. So in-person, and you will see on the far end of the screen, ifthey ever give us a wide shot, giant monitors that have been installed to bring in MPs from other parts of the country who may have questions. Let’s listen now to the leader of the official opposition, Andrew Scheer.
Weeks ago, and yet here we are two and a half months later and many of these programs still have not been improved. So simple question for the Prime Minister, on April 26, conservatives ask the Prime Minister to change the criteria for the Canada emergency business account so that small businesses who don’t happen to have a business bank account can qualify for those types of programs. It’s now may 27. is the Prime Minister going to make that change?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
– from the beginning of this pandemic that we did need to move extremely quickly, and that’s what we did. We rolled out the Canada emergency response benefit extremely quickly, 8 million Canadians have had that as a replacement for paycheques lost because of COVID-19. We also moved forward ond wage subsidy and a range of other programs to support workers and small businesses. What we’ve done in terms of helping small businesses with the Canada emergency business account has made a massive impact in small businesses across the country. We understand that certain companies and businesses have particularlities that mean it’s a little bit more difficult for them to qualify. We are working with them throughthe regional development agencies and we encourage them to approach their local rda s who will be able to help them get the money they deserve.
Mr. Speaker, these are very simple technical fixes that can be fixed by this government. There’s no excuse for the delay. It’s may 27. They have known about these problems for weeks, and they are trying to get patted on the back for actions that they took back in March, and yet they are letting so many Canadians down by not making these very simple changes. For example, companies in the last year who have purchased another company, acquired another company, have employees whose jobs are threatened because the businesses are not allowed to qualify for the wage subsidy because their revenue is now counted together. We have identified this gap. So again, simple question, will companies who have acquired another company still be allowed to use the wage subsidy to keep workers on the job, yes or no?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, I know that there are many, many different types of businesses across this country who need support. We have moved forward on supporting as many of them as we possibly can, and continue to work on filling gaps. I know the member opposite is talking about – has talked to me a number of times about a tractor company in his riding. I can assure you that finance officials are engaged with that company to try and see if there is a way where we can make sure that we are getting them the support they need.
Mr. Scheer.
I can save him a lot of time and save his officials a lot of time. He used the word, the government used the word “amalgamation” when they announced the changes to that program. He can make this very clear and save a lot of work if he just included the word “acquisition.” will he do that?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
I can assure you that finance officials are working closely with Brandt tractor. They are continuing to work wit ha range of businesses across the country who for various reasons are not able to apply for the help we have now. We will continue to work to make sure that people who need the help get it.
We will go on to Mr. Scheer. Mr. Scheer?
Well, Mr. Speaker, it’s literally one word. We can email him the text. We can send him the page in the dictionary where that word is defined, if that would help. Another gap that is letting people down is the rent relief program. Now the government has set the parameters to qualify for the rent relief program for companies that have experienced a 70% revenue loss. There are untold thousands of businesses who have experienced a 60 or 65% or 50, 55% loss who are ineligible who have no capacity to pay their rent. We have called for the government as early as – we have called on the government weeks ago to have a more flexible sliding scale to allow more companies to access this program, again to keep more people on the job and more businesses open. Will the government introduce some flexibility to this program to help more businesses survive?
The Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, from the beginning of this pandemic our public servants and policy-makers have been moving creatively and quickly to try and get help to as many people as we possibly can, with our focus being on thepeople who need it the most. Obviously this pandemic is affecting everyone and every business across the country in different ways, but our focus has been on ensuring that those who most need it are getting thehelp we can. We will, of course, continue to work with parties opposite and all Canadians to ensure that we’re getting help to everyone who needs it, but our focus has always been on the most vulnerable, first and foremost. [voice of interpreter]
Mr. Blanchet.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Question for the Prime Minister. If the liberal party of Canada had not used these emergency programs, would they have laid off all of the liberal party staffers?
The right honourable Prime Minister?
Prime Minister Trudeau:
There are many organizations and companies facing difficulties due to COVID-19. There are people who are working for these organizations, be theyaccountants, receptionists, attendants, people who need support. We support these programs across the country.
Mr. Blanchet?
is the liberal party of Canada an organization that is in difficulty?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Any company organization that can show a significant drop in income, be it through donations or profits, we will now return to blanchet. Mr. Blanchet?
is the liberal party of Canada an organization experiencing difficulties?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, we have created specific criteria to help organizations in difficulty. Any organization that is experiencing those difficulties may apply.
Mr. Blanchet?
There are fisheries in the Magdalene islands that are in difficult. They need help. They don’t have money. is the liberal party of Canada an organization experiencing difficulty?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, we have invested in aid to the fishermen across the country. We recognize this is a difficult situation with COVID-19. We will be there for the fishermen and industries experiencing difficulties.
Mr. Blanchet.
I AM searching for answers. There is a company in drummondville that makes insulation. They are in difficulty. is the liberal party of Canada an organization experiencing difficulty?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, there are clear criteria to apply for these programs companies and organizations that are getting assistance under these programs are qualified for those programs.
Mr. Blanchet.
If the criteria set out that the liberal is an organization in difficulty, are the programs poorly established to help organizations in difficulty?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, our priority throughout the pandemic is to be there for workers who are experiencing difficulties, who are losing their jobs in all organizations and companies across the country to the extentpossible, and that is what we are doing.
Mr. Blanchet.
is the Prime Minister in difficulty?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
No, Mr. Speaker. We are doing important work for all Canadians every day.
Mr. Blanchet.
There are restaurants in Ontario through to Montreal who think they will not make it through this crisis. They are in difficulty. In comparison, is the liberal party of Canada an organization in difficulty that will not survive this crisis? we would like to know.
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Chair, we have established criteria for the program to help those who are working for different organizations, any organization receiving the subsidy qualifies for this subsidy.
Mr. Blanchet.
– liberal party coffers is the liberal party in difficulty?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Chair, we are working every day to help Canadians and workers experiencing difficulties, and we will continue to do that.
Mr. Blanchet.
Question for the Prime Minister. is he in difficulty?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, I’m very pleased to be here in this chamber to answer the questions to Canadians and to members of the opposition.
Mr. Blanchet.
Are you going to answer the questions of quebecers? I hope so. There are many companies experiencing difficulties. Are these companies not deserving of getting saved by the money that the liberal party has supposedly in difficulty taken?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, I’m very pleased to respond to the questions asked by all Canadians sitting in thishouse. Mr. Chair, we are there to help all the workers in difficulty across the country, including inquebec.
Mr. Blanchet.
If the Prime Minister is so happy to answer My questions, I would ask him to answer whether the liberal party is in difficulty or not.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Chair, we established a program to help workers who work for organizations if they lose their job because of COVID-19, and we’re here to help workers and organizations across the company. [ end of interpretation ]
We will now go on to Mr. Singh. Mr. Singh?
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The conditions of seniors as outlined by the military were appalling, but seniors need more than just compassionate words. They need action. Will the Prime Minister stop hiding behind excuses and actually show leadership to fix long-term care?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, the constitution ofcanada is not an excuse. It lays out the divisions of powers and responsibilities, and we respect the provinces’ jurisdiction over long-term carefacilities. However, from the very beginning, we have indicated ourwillingness to support the provinces on this very importantissue. We need to make sure our seniorsright across the country are properly cared for, which is whywe sent in the military, why we are there to help the provinces.
THE FORMER FEDERAL HEALTH MINISTER, DR. PHILPOTT, SAID, AND I QUOTE:
We need to stop using jurisdiction as an excuse to avoid federal leadership. End quote. That is a former federal health Minister. Now we know from the military report that staff were afraid to use a vital equipment because of the cost. Will the Prime Minister call to end profit in long-term care snathe right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, over the past couple of days I’ve had very good conversations with the premiers of both Quebec and Ontario on this important issue. I look forward to discussing issues around long-term care with all the premiers of the provinces and territories tomorrow evening as well. This is something that canadianshave seen needs concerted action. We will be there to support the provinces.
Mr. Singh.
Needles were re-used and expired medication was used, according to military reports. Will the Prime Minister call foran end to profit in the care of our seniors?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, the contents of that report were deeply disturbing and troubling for allcanadians. That is why we are committed to working with the provinces TX . Ontarian and indeed people right across the country are deeply pre-occupied by what they’ve seen going on. We need to fix this. We will do that together.
Go on to Mr. Singh.
Military report found that cockroaches and flies were present, that food was rotten. Will the Prime Minister call for national standards so that long-term care is governed by the same principles as the Canada health act?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, our priority right now is ensuring that we are supporting the provinces in their need to make sure that all seniors are protected right across the country in all those institutions. Going forward, we absolutely will need to have more conversations about how we can assure that every senior across the country is properly supported.
Mr. Singh.
THE MILITARY REPORT FOUND, AND I QUOTE:
“respecting the dignity of patients was not a priority.” will the Prime Minister call for national standards and long-termcare to be governed by the same principles as the Canada health act?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, all Canadians know we need to do better by our seniors. This is something that we all take very seriously, and all orders of government will work together to make sure that right now and going forward we improve our systems. The federal government will be there to work with the province son making that happen.
Mr. Singh.
Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has said that he’s willing to work with the provinces. I’m saying that we need to see federal leadership. We need a commitment at the federal level that the Prime Minister will push for things that people need, which is to remove profit from long-term care and to establish national standards. Will the Prime Minister go beyond working with provinces and show some leadership?
The right honourable Prime Minister. [voice of interpreter]
Prime Minister Trudeau:
I will always be here to defend Canadians in various situations. We are going to work in respecting provincial jurisdictions with the provinces to ensure that across the country Canadians in long-term care homes are supported properly and the services and care that they deserve will be provided. [ end of interpretation ]
Mr. Singh, 30 seconds, a brief question, please.
Thank you very much. COVID-19 crisis should not be used as an excuse to avoid presenting solutions to the murdered and missing indigenous women and girls committee. In particular, delaying action on the calls for justice. This is the same government that denied recognizing it’s a genocide, the same government that delayed the united nations declaration legislation, and the same government that is still taking additional cases to court. Will this government commit to core funding for indigenous services to have women and girls, and ensure that the Callisto justice are implemented without delay?
The right honourable Prime Minister.
Prime Minister Trudeau:
Mr. Speaker, we continue to work very closely with partners on the calls to justice, even as we act in many areas, including better funding for shelters and for victims of domestic violence. We will continue to work with those partners, but people will understand that many of those partners are very focused right now on helping front-line workers, not on establishing thereport. We will continue to work with them on the report, but the COVID-19 situation has made thatmore difficult.
I want to thank the honourable members who are shouting time, but I do have a timer here, and I AM taking care of it. I appreciate the help, though, but I just want to remind them that I have the proper machineryhere. We will now go to –
Rosemary:
Okay, we are going to pull away from this question period of the COVID-19 committee, the special COVID-19 committee, where it was very difficult to see, you may have seen there where mp James Bean stood up, but there are two large monitors now installed inside the chamber to facilitate this new hybrid model of the committee that was agreed to between the liberals, NDP and green party. That means that they will sit a little more regularly, but they will not be doing the whole house of commons as had been requested by the conservative party and, in fact, the bloc also supported the conservatives in that bid. But the NDP decided that they would support the liberals after they received a promise of ten paid sick days as part of their negotiating tactics. If you want to continue watchingthat, you can always watch it atcbcc/politics, but we general just take the leaders round. We will pull away now and pull in david Cochrane and Vassy kapelos. a couple things there. The Prime Minister’s questions were primarily about long-term care, perhaps not surprisingly, although a couple very detailed questions from Andrew Scheer. I want to go back to something that the president of the treasury board, jean-yves Duclos, said in the short time that we took him in the briefingthere. He said that federal and national standards would be aggressive if they were going to be dictated by ottawa when it comes to long-term care centres. To me that seemed the most sort of complete thought and expression of the concerns here by the federal government when getting into this. Certainly the Prime Minister didn’t go anywhere near that, Vassy, in his responses to jagmeet singh.
That’s exactly what jumped out to me, Rosie, so I’m glad you’re flagging it. He was sort of prompted a bit by the question, you know, is that the way that you would characterize it. and I found it interesting because it does sort of pull back the curtain a little bit on the federal government’s thinking as they and the provincial government’s affected by particularly the two reports from the armed forces try to navigate fixing the issue in the short term. Even if you’re looking short term or long term, if the solution is more money or more pockets of money directed specifically at long-term care, which seems to be already premier ford, for example yesterday, is asking for that. and certainly premiers have beenasking for it for a long time, ishould note. But if in fact that is going to be part of the solution, Minister Duclos is giving us an indication of what might come alongside that money. and there have been some suggestions, including from former federal health Minister jane philpott, to attach certainconditions or certain strings tothat money, or very much so likea set of guidelines that are notjust voluntary guidelines. That’s what exists right now. You’ll remember about – I thinkit was six weeks ago, that may not be the exact timeline, but the federal government released a set of guidelines. They are voluntary. There is no punishment if you don’t comply with the standards, and I think we’ve seen standardsare an issue, clearly, as laid out by the armed forces. and so I took from that – I wasvery interested in hearing some sort of characterization from the federal government about what a solution might look like, and if you’re calling it aggressive, like, they are very – about jurisdiction. That is coming through loud and clear, and so I wonder what thatmeans for even the next few weeks, few days, if there is more money going to Ontario, forexample, is it just going to be sent without strings? I mean, that – I imagine some of the people who have family members in those homes would be perplexed by that, but at the same time, those jurisdictional conversations are touchy. You can really tell.
Rosemary:
Yeah, and I would remind people that the last time that the government tried to attach strings to health care funding under Paul martin, if I believe, around wait times, it was a very – there was a very long negotiation process, and Quebec was very difficult during the negotiations because it is not very prone to taking money with conditions. So inevitably, it would also have to be something that would allow Quebec to opt out, as it so often does with federal programs. I know I’m way down the road here, but then if Quebec opts out, do other provinces opt out? can they just take the money and use it for their health care? you can just see the complexity of what more funding and how those talks would unfold. Even as we know there are also things that can be done inside aprovince, right? I mean, there are, like, hundreds and hundreds of regulations around long-term care centres in Ontario that arenot being followed. So there are surely some things that the province could start tofix on its own as they await a bigger conversation around what that would look like. David, your thoughts on that?
David:
Yeah, I mean, the jurisdiction thing is an issue they’re going to have to overcome. There have been recent health care transfer increases with strings attached, though, Rosie. Mental health services in the last round that was negotiated with the Prime Minister here in Ottawa.
Rosemary:
Quite right.
David:
So this is not unprecedented or even uncommon. It’s happened in the very recentpast. I’m not quite sure what jag meet Singh is calling for when he says the Prime Minister needs to show leadership, because going back to the aggressive standard, if they said here are the national standards for long-termcare, well what then? I mean, there’s no legal authority to force the provincesto comply with these things. The government of Canada has no constitutional authority over long-term care. This is exclusively the domain of the provinces, so this is whyit needs to be a negotiation andit needs to be a conversation, sort of bold declarations from the Prime Minister right now at a time when the Prime Minister and the premiers are all workingpretty well together, it seems, is not necessarily productive inthe larger climate. But you know, I think he is – so the specifics of what singh is suggesting I’m not sure on. The mood he is tapping into is interesting, though. If you look at health crises in the past in this country, they have led to reform. The great pandemic of spanish flu of 1918 led to the creation of the federal department of health. The sars epidemic led to the creation of the public health agency of Canada, which is now led by Dr. Theresa tam. COVID-19, it seems, is giving momentum to a conversation of reform of elder care in this country, so the jurisdictional niceties are things you do have to manage and respect, but thereis, I think, a momentum to tackle this issue and lead to reform in that sector of some sort. What that is needs to be settledby the first ministers.
Rosemary:
Yeah, and as you’retalk, I AM reminded by someone that, yes, they have negotiated strings attached to health care funding in this particular government has in the recent past, and those are based on common indicators that they would register with the Canada institute for health information. My point is simply that negotiating those things with Quebec does lead to friction, inevitably, and larger negotiations. and when Quebec is the one who has 25 long-term care centres with military members in them, obviously they do need help. I mean, there’s no denying that. I just think there’s the potential for difficulty with some provinces, not with all of them, but certainly with some ofthem. Can I just, before I go, just sort of set the stage for what Andrew nichols is going to be covering over the next couple ofhours, the meng wanzhou case. The picture in the bottom of thescreen is her waiting to leave for court. That decision expects at 2 eastern. I know you guys know everything, so I’m comfortable about asking you about – because a lot of focus, obviously, in this town will be on that decision as wellto see what exactly happens hereon this issue of double criminality for meng wanzhou, whether the federal government appeal, whether she can actuallyleave the country. Lots of different fallout from this decision here in ottawa as well, Vassy.
Vassy:
Yeah, the big question, if I could sort of dumb it down for myself, that the judge is looking at is whether or not the crime that she was charged with is a crime here in Canada because the crime she was charged with has to do with the sanctions against Iran levied by the United States which at the time were not in place in Canada. So that’s the essential question being looked at. The political implications of that decision could be huge. If in fact it’s found the judge finds that it’s not a crime, that she shouldn’t have been charged with that, or convicted of it here in Canada, then the federal government is, as you point out, Rosie, faced with the decision of whether to appeal that or whether to let it all play out and perhaps she not end up having to go through an extradition trial here, or whatever the consequence might be. Basically to accelerate the way in which she might be able to befreed. That would be huge because, of course, we know that china has arbitrarily detained Michael kovrig and Michael savor in retaliation for what happened tomeng wanzhou. Does that, then, set the stage for their release? I’m getting way ahead of myself. We don’t know. But basically that’s why, even though it’s one decision among many, it is a significant one that could have huge political consequences and huge tangible consequences for those two men which have now been detained for more than 500 days.
Rosemary:
Yeah, not to mention the relationship betweencanada and china, this is also ab it – you know, there’s so much going on there, just in the general way right now, David.
David:
Yeah, if she wins today, there is the potential for an improvement in relations with china. Only the potential, though. It’s not a guarantee that you’regoing to see a swift release of the two Michael’s over this because that would lay bare that they were, in fact, a bargaining chip and a hostage situation connected to the Meg Lanzhou extradition case. But if she does win today, that potential improvement of relations with china could be offset with a potential damaging of relations with the United States who has put a bull’s eye on huawei and is fighting every kind of a battle with china on trade and politics and middle powers like Canada are caught in the middle. If she loses today, the fear I suspect would be an escalation by china to show just how serious it is about this in wanting her release, and if she does lose today, it then sets the stage for a formal extradition hearing where the merits of the argument to have her sent to the United States would be debated. Extradition rates are quite high, about 90% in this country, once it is determined that dual criminality applies and there was a reasonable arrest, they almost always get sent to the foreign country. There is a high probability that if she loses today that Meg Lanzhou could end up in the hands of foreign authorities.
Rosemary:
Vassy kapelos, you can see her tonight at 5 eastern, and David Cochrane, thank you both. As I said, we’ll have special coverage of that case, the decision expected at two eastern. Before I go, I want to highlight something the Prime Minister said, 45, 000 jobs available for young people, jobbank. Cg. Ca. Thank you so much for watching. Andrew Nichols continues our